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  1. #21

    heart changes for the worse with extreme endurance

    Quote Originally Posted by "gasem":y26sfwrd
    Remember what happened to the first marathoner.
    Eh, the study clearly shows that moderate amounts of running is healthy. More people die every year while benching without a spotter than by running a marathon. The intelligent thing to do is use some form of precaution in both instances. So let's not go throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If you decide you do not want to train to run a marathon then God bless, no one should ever tell you otherwise. I personally hope this data gives people who run 5+ marathons a year some pause as in the interview the doctor clearly says that type of activity is not healthy. For someone like me who runs two marathons a year and takes a break from running after each race I'm not too concerned.

  2. #22

    heart changes for the worse with extreme endurance

    Quote Originally Posted by "eternal_beginner":it2lvnu0
    Eh, the study clearly shows that moderate amounts of running is healthy. More people die every year while benching without a spotter than by running a marathon. The intelligent thing to do is use some form of precaution in both instances. So let's not go throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If you decide you do not want to train to run a marathon then God bless, no one should ever tell you otherwise. I personally hope this data gives people who run 5+ marathons a year some pause as in the interview the doctor clearly says that type of activity is not healthy. For someone like me who runs two marathons a year and takes a break from running after each race I'm not too concerned.
    Are you being sarcastic? Because I find that very hard to believe.

  3. #23
    Administrator Roland Denzel's Avatar
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    heart changes for the worse with extreme endurance

    Quote Originally Posted by "gasem":25ss1lsx
    Remember what happened to the first marathoner. I think the issue is probably ischemic and inflammatory. The heart has no oxygen reserve and the capillary beds are not necessarily uniform in how they are perfused. Under stress areas can go relatively under perfused which means these very metabolically active cells start to starve for oxygen and feul and have a reduced ability to eliminate the by products of metabolism. They also can become acidotic. If you stop and rest it gives the heart a chance to recover. Also the "runners high" tends to dramatically mask pain. If you watch a kid run, they run some walk some when they get winded, run some more all the while smiling. They are not driven by garmins, and splits and the need to have a 26.2 sticker on the back of the volvo. I used to be a distance runner back in the hey day. I was constantly plauged with injury. I now run with a weight vest on a treadmill not longer than 45 minutes. I am totally time driven and not milage driven. Between the ability to adjust elevation, the weight in the vest and speed I have over 6000 injury free miles on my treadmill with very good control of my cardiac dynamics and how hard core I want to drive things. The point is its not either run or don't run, it's to design a regimen that is healthful. Every one looks down their nose at the guy who is eating 2000 cals worth of bacon and pancakes. I think its just as rational to look down my nose at the person who is exercising irrationally and justifying it with comments like I'm gonna die running. This extends to things like crossfit as well. My friends daughter has cost her a few thousand dollars with injuries she has sustained doing crossfit.
    I've heard others postulate that it's an electrical impulse issue, and that things go haywire when one is repeatedly exhausted and stressed to this degree. The theory, as I remember, was that each time the body and CNS system was pushed that far, nerve [impulse] damage was done that eventually might take it's toll at the end of a long run.

  4. #24

    heart changes for the worse with extreme endurance

    Quote Originally Posted by "missjane":2r6dkpk7
    Are you being sarcastic? Because I find that very hard to believe.
    It's in Starting Strength. Mark Rippetoe gives the figures.

  5. #25

    heart changes for the worse with extreme endurance

    gasem":ckaelra7]r. I think the issue is probably ischemic and [color="Red\n
    inflammatory[/color]. .
    and nutrition is one of the key mechanisms of modulating inflammation.

  6. #26

    heart changes for the worse with extreme endurance

    Quote Originally Posted by "eternal_beginner":2687d907
    It's in Starting Strength. Mark Rippetoe gives the figures.
    Hmmm....must not be in my edition. A quick google search didn't lead me anywhere for any stats, either.

  7. #27
    Administrator Roland Denzel's Avatar
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    heart changes for the worse with extreme endurance

    Quote Originally Posted by "missjane":3s6bu9qh
    Hmmm....must not be in my edition. A quick google search didn't lead me anywhere for any stats, either.
    I don't think it's a fair comparison, anyway. Bench press accidents compares more to runners being hit by cars. Even that's a little sketchy, since bench pressing heavy without a spotter is dumb.

  8. #28

    heart changes for the worse with extreme endurance

    Nutrition may have something to do with chronic inflammation it has virtually nothing to do with acute injury. In the heart injury leads to scarring. This is what happens in a heart attack. Tissue dies and turns into scar. As far as arrythmia, injured cardiac tissue tends to be arrythmogenic. The heart relies on all its cells contracting in a coordinated fashion. Injured cells tend to become discoordinated if that happens in a way that the discoordinated cells take over the driving function of the heart you get vtach or vfib. The problem with either of these is the heart fails to pump blood and the bp falls to zero. Its the loss of bp that kills you.

  9. #29
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    heart changes for the worse with extreme endurance

    I find this kinda bothersome as someone who has been long distance running regularly for 10 years and off-and-on since my early teens. A few months ago, I experienced an episode of at least several weeks of premature ventricular contractions. While I've always had some, these were fairly frequent. Many people experience benign PVC's, even multiple PVC's per hour, so I have no idea whether they were tied to running in any way. Scary, though, when several occur in succession. Now I'm back to just having an occasional one. Go figure.

    As much as I enjoy running and the challenge of pushing myself beyond my limits, information like this does give me pause to think about whether it's really necessary to do runs that cause severe stress. Are marathons worth it? Should I write that 50K trail race off my bucket list? Hmmmmm.

  10. #30
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    heart changes for the worse with extreme endurance

    Quote Originally Posted by "eternal_beginner":pxn9bzh2
    I love running and as a runner the absolute last thing I'd want to do is try to convince someone to take up the sport. I always feel bad for the person who is out there on the running path and you smile at them or give them a nod and they look absolutely miserable. There's got to be an activity they would enjoy more than running. For us runners, we just really enjoy getting out there and hauling.
    I agree. I was running on a trail yesterday evening in the Alabama heat and humidity, and a large group of runners in a Couch-to-5K program was on the trail as well. So many of them looked miserable. Great that they are up and moving, but I don't think long distance running is the best form of exercise for overweight, inactive people. More power to those who get hooked, but I have to believe that most would have been spending their time more efficiently in a gym working out with weights.

  11. #31

    heart changes for the worse with extreme endurance

    Quote Originally Posted by "Lost Dog":2zx62pga
    I don't think it's a fair comparison, anyway. Bench press accidents compares more to runners being hit by cars. Even that's a little sketchy, since bench pressing heavy without a spotter is dumb.
    I'll have to look it up later and I agree it isn't apples to apples. The larger point that is being missed here is that both are perfectly fine exercises if done properly and with a modicum of common sense.

  12. #32

    heart changes for the worse with extreme endurance

    If you are concerned there is a test called a holter monitor which can help to determine if your pvc's are benign. There is also an implantable monitor for very long term monitoring in all facets of your life.

  13. #33

    heart changes for the worse with extreme endurance

    Quote Originally Posted by "missjane":33f2stt6
    Hmmm....must not be in my edition. A quick google search didn't lead me anywhere for any stats, either.
    The results of my Google search:


    This University of Oregon study indicates there have been 5 deaths per year while benching since 2008. From 2000-2009 3 people died each year either during or very shortly after a marathon.

    Once again, I have zero interest in impugning weightlifting, a form of exercise I love. The larger point is to use some common sense and not put yourself in a position where you are going to do more harm than good.

  14. #34
    Senior Member LisaS's Avatar
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    heart changes for the worse with extreme endurance

    Quote Originally Posted by "eternal_beginner":7768imvn
    The results of my Google search:


    This University of Oregon study indicates there have been 5 deaths per year while benching since 2008. From 2000-2009 3 people died each year either during or very shortly after a marathon.

    Once again, I have zero interest in impugning weightlifting, a form of exercise I love. The larger point is to use some common sense and not put yourself in a position where you are going to do more harm than good.
    Of course, "while benching" would be once a week (usually Monday) every week potential exposure so lots of events for a single person. One person might run many miles, die during or shortly after almost any run without it happening to hit in the one or two marathons run in the year, if the runner even chooses to compete. How many deaths during a power lifting meet bench press event? How many deaths for runners as a group during or within x hours of a training run?

    It just strikes me as kind of a weird statistic that doesn't really give any insights into risk at all.

    Reminds me a little of the cholesterol lowering effects of Justin Bieber j/k

  15. #35

    heart changes for the worse with extreme endurance

    Quote Originally Posted by "gasem":30n91omz
    Nutrition may have something to do with chronic inflammation it has virtually nothing to do with acute injury. In the heart injury leads to scarring. This is what happens in a heart attack. Tissue dies and turns into scar. As far as arrythmia, injured cardiac tissue tends to be arrythmogenic. The heart relies on all its cells contracting in a coordinated fashion. Injured cells tend to become discoordinated if that happens in a way that the discoordinated cells take over the driving function of the heart you get vtach or vfib. The problem with either of these is the heart fails to pump blood and the bp falls to zero. Its the loss of bp that kills you.
    This is a good point but it affects athletes in general, not just runners.

    An American Heart Association journal study last year examined records of 1,866 athletes who died suddenly while playing 38 different sports over three decades. Half were because of a heart problem, and a third of those because of Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy.
    It's just a good idea in general to get medical clearance by way of a checkup if you are just getting into physical fitness or when you get your annual checkup.

    Alright, enough out of me. :tongue

  16. #36
    JoCotter
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    heart changes for the worse with extreme endurance

    I think the jury is out on this one but I believe that pushing your body to extremes can result in damage. Whether that damage is in the form of torn ligaments, stress fractures or damage to blood vessels and heart muscle! I always recommend to my clients that they do everything in moderation. I have run marathon's in the past but no any more.

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