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Thread: Party of the Rich

  1. #1

    Party of the Rich

    Jane

    "Knowing that you would have wanted it this way, I do believe I'm feelin' stronger every day" Chicago

  2. #2

    Party of the Rich

    It is apparent that the Republicans aren't too concerned about the Norquist pledge when it concerns the most regressive tax in the tax arsenal. Somehow, tax increases on working folks making under 110K per year aren't a big deal,, but you have to fight to the death to make sure billionaires only pay cap gains and dividends at a 15% rate, and to make sure an estate tax with a $5 million exclusion gets repealed.

    I'm in awe of the marketing prowess in getting the middle class to sign on to a shifting of the tax burden from the rich to the middle class over the last 30 years.

  3. #3

    Party of the Rich

    http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/10/~/media/Images/Reports/2011/10/wm3389_table1_750.ashx

    The millionaire surtax would also apply to capital gains and dividends. This would be yet another surtax on investment income, as Obamacare already applied an extra 3.8 percent tax. Combined with that surtax and the President's policy of increasing the capital gains and dividends rate to 20 percent from the current 15 percent rate, the millionaire surtax would raise the total rate to 29.4 percent"a 96 percent increase over the current rate.
    Higher capital gains taxes would further impede job creation because it would increase the cost of new capital for businesses looking to grow or replace worn-out capital. This would make it more expensive for businesses to buy the equipment, tools, and other things they need to employ more workers and make their current workers more productive. The end result would be fewer jobs and lower wages for American workers.
    The President frequently calls his tax hike plans "tax reform." But one of the goals of tax reform is to lower the cost of capital to improve economic growth and enhance job creation. Higher taxes on capital are opposed to the aims of true tax reform.

  4. #4

    Party of the Rich

    Did you even READ the article I lnked?
    Jane

    "Knowing that you would have wanted it this way, I do believe I'm feelin' stronger every day" Chicago

  5. #5

    Party of the Rich

    I see no reason in a world where single selfemployed working taxpayers making under 110K a year are taxed at 43.3% (28% marginal rate +15.3% payroll taxes) marginal rates, that Millionaire's shouldn't have tax rates raised to 29% on investment income.

    The divide between investment tax rates and income tax rates are absurd. The argument that lowering capital gains will create more jobs is fundamentally absurd given the current economic situation, where rates are at an all time low, Corporate profits are at the highest percentage of GDP in well over a century, and jobs are nowhere to be found. A lot of people are swallowing a lot of bad economics that paid propagandists like the Heritage Foundation spew out.

    You can cut Cap gain and dividend rates to nothing, and profits could soar higher, and companies still wouldn't hire because there is no demand by the debt ridden lower and middle classes.

  6. #6

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    Party of the Rich

    Actually it is a foundational belief of much of the Republican Party that there be no death taxes (estate tax), nor tax on capital gains, nor tax on dividends or interest. This of course would mean that much of the income of the very rich would never be taxed. It really amounts to re-establishing an aristocracy. People who are dumb enough to work for their money will pay for all of the taxes. You might call it 'life taxes'. Income, in my opinion, is income. Why should a hard working doctor pay more taxes than an idle rich person who got their money from daddy.

    Note - Eisenhower, Nixon, and Democrats were not opposed to a notably progressive tax rate. The country seemed to do fairly well after Clinton "You can't tax your way to Prosperity" did just that.
    [URL="http://www.jpfitness.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=23907]

  7. #7

    Party of the Rich

    Quote Originally Posted by "missjane":2x772z97
    I read the article. I currently work with the Federal Govt and have lobbied on behalf of and against several of the key points mentioned over the last few years. I have previously written here about efficient tax theory, so I won't repeat those critiques.

    Everyone in DC plays with the tax code to reward their favorite ideas and punish those they oppose. It is a truly bipartisan activity.

    There is so much wrong with the article that it is unworthy of an 8 page fisking. Beleive what you want. Any political argument about our current deficit and budget fiasco that includes this:

    "Historically, Republican and Democratic administrations alike had met the financial burdens of war by raising taxes."


    is simply illegitimate and reflects no comprehension of the antecedents to our current crisis.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
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    Party of the Rich

    Flat tax, anyone?
    In Fitness & Friendship,
    MAHLER

    _______________________________________
    There is no light at the end of the tunnel. You carry the light with you.

    Member of the Million Pound Club - Deadlift 4,450 x 225

  9. #9

    Party of the Rich

    Mahler fer prez!!!

  10. #10

    Party of the Rich

    Cracks me up. The guy gets in office gives away a trillion bucks to the mafia and repubs are called the party of the wealthy. What a hoot.

  11. #11

    Party of the Rich

    Everyone in DC plays with the tax code to reward their favorite ideas and punish those they oppose. It is a truly bipartisan activity.
    Probably true, but which side has "punished" ideas that primarily benefit the investor class? Correct answer: Nobody.

    There may be points in that article to quibble over but big picture-wise one party has done more to push the trickle down theory than the other. It doesn't take an economist to look at taxation trends over the past three decades and note some connection with growing wealth inequality.
    "Athletes are always looking for some secret Soviet exercise or program, and this makes damage to them," he says. "The most important thing is for them to understand the vision of the global movement, of the dance. This is my philosophy." - World Record hammer thrower Yuriy Sedykh

  12. #12

    Party of the Rich

    Quote Originally Posted by "gasem":38o8vhm0
    Cracks me up. The guy gets in office gives away a trillion bucks to the mafia and repubs are called the party of the wealthy. What a hoot.
    That's the magic of FOX and am radio isn't it?

    Nearly half of Americans incorrectly think President Obama started the the bank bailout program, otherwise known as the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP), a new poll shows.

    Just 34 percent of Americans surveyed by the Pew Research Center correctly said that TARP was enacted by the Bush administration.
    "Athletes are always looking for some secret Soviet exercise or program, and this makes damage to them," he says. "The most important thing is for them to understand the vision of the global movement, of the dance. This is my philosophy." - World Record hammer thrower Yuriy Sedykh

  13. #13

    Party of the Rich

    I quit voting for Republicans in 2000.

    If I had been paying attention I probably would have sooner than that.

    They jumped the shark a good 15 or 20 years earlier than that.

    Right about the time the effects of the "Southern Strategy" starting to kick in.

    Today's Republican Party bears very little resemblance to the party of Eisenhower that I grew up knowing.
    [align=left:242rtbw2]"Improvise, Adapt, Overcome"

    [/align:242rtbw2]

  14. #14

    Party of the Rich

    Quote Originally Posted by "gasem":31t10uhc
    Cracks me up. The guy gets in office gives away a trillion bucks to the mafia and repubs are called the party of the wealthy. What a hoot.
    As opposed to the guy before who gave away Trillions to the military industrial complex.

    I don't have much trouble with the folks who don't believe the Democrats are acting in their best interests, but the true believers who believe the Republicans are any better are clearly sniffing glue.

  15. #15

    Party of the Rich

    Quote Originally Posted by "kuri":2q3634z2
    Probably true, but which side has "punished" ideas that primarily benefit the investor class? Correct answer: Nobody.
    Why would we want to punish the Investor Class? That is a broad target and includes the funds saved by unions, corporations, and local governments to finance their pension plans. One of the great ironies of the constant hectoring of the financial sector by organizations like the AFL-CIO is the fact that they willingly line up and pay us to manage their money and generate the returns they need to maintain benefit levels.


    Quote Originally Posted by "kuri":2q3634z2
    There may be points in that article to quibble over but big picture-wise one party has done more to push the trickle down theory than the other. It doesn't take an economist to look at taxation trends over the past three decades and note some connection with growing wealth inequality.
    Agree. I also didn't make that point, nor would I in a tax discussion. But if the writer just wanted to trash the current marketing scheme of the republicans, he could have done so with trying to make the other side seem above it all.

  16. #16
    Anonymous
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    Party of the Rich

    .

  17. #17
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    Party of the Rich

    The problem with the current discussion of taxing investment income is that it is polluted with this "tax the rich" nonsense. I am with Mahler, except for the destitue, everyone should pay the same percentage as income tax. Citizens have equal responsibility for taxes. And yes, I recognize that might cause me to pay more taxes than I do now (which seem quite enough to me). Its still the right thing to do.

    But if we are going to tax certain types of income less for policy reasons, the issue should be decided based on the whether this helps or hurts the economy overall.

  18. #18

    Party of the Rich

    The problem is, the Republicans are aggressively trying to shift the tax income from cap gains and dividends, to earned income. That effectively lowers tax rates on people like Warren Buffet to 15%, while soaking the working middle class with effective rates of 35+%.

    When you have people like Newt Gingrich talking about zero capital gains taxes, Class Warfare has been declared. As Bill Gross of Pimco said, it's about time the left has started class warfare, since the Right has been aggressively pursuing it for decades.

  19. #19

    Party of the Rich

    Economics almost always become completely irrelevant in elections, which should be fairly clear by now. A great deal of middle america, and often florida and texas, vote counter to economic interest. The "fiscally conservative" republicans have been very successful at pushing this agenda by getting in bed with christian fundamentalists, and of course even more moderate christians who respond to wedge issues like gays in the military, flag burning, prayer in schools, creationism, and abortion. With those issues alone, it's been very easy for them to drum up support. It did not work in the last election as well as it could have, but it defined the Bush era.

    People are likely to pay more attention at this point, but in the end, big scary social issues will almost always take precedence over tax rates and trade treaties.

  20. #20

    Party of the Rich

    The funny thing is that the government's position on social issues is mostly irrelevant, since most social policies are driven by the culture. It's why the same opposition to thing like gay rights is ultimately doomed in the same way opposition to women's voting and rights of African Americans not to be slaves was doomed despite opposition from the same groups of mouthbreathing fundamentalist religious groups.

    Although I agree with you those things do probably drive more voting behavior, government is usually a trailing factor rather than a leading factor. It's a shame that things the government can control, fiscal policies, international policies, trade policies, seem to be afterthoughts.

    Newt Gingrich will never be President. Not because of his policies or ideas which could be debated, but because he cheated on his wife and abandoned her when she had cancer. That's just the way politics works. The emotional issues usually trump the rational ones.

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